NCRC Podcast w/ Lillian Singh

Intro 0:00

The lens of the media is not right and it needs focus, so it’s incumbent on the practitioners to shine a spotlight so those who knew it can guide you through it. Spotlight series is an in-depth look with the experts on the racial wealth divide hosted by Dedrick Asante-Mohammad, Chief of Race, Wealth and Community at NCRC. The Spotlight series is part of the Race and Wealth Network, shine on brother.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 0:22

Welcome to the Spotlight, part of the Race and Wealth Network. On Spotlight we go one-on-one with the experts and practitioners advancing work that addresses the racial wealth divide. Today we have a special guest, the longtime friend, comrade Lillian Singh of Prosperity Now. Lillian, thank you so much for being part of Spotlight.

Lillian Singh 0:43

Thank you for having me. Thank you for inviting me.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 0:45

This is gonna be a great conversation with someone who have worked with for years, someone who I think is really going to give a good breakdown of what it means to actually try to get work done on the ground as it relates to racial wealth inequality, not just talking about the problem or having theories on how to address it, but what has been practical experiences. So Lillian, I would like you to start off with talking to us a bit about your background and how you got into this work.

Lillian Singh 1:09

Yeah, no problem. I’ll just start off by saying that I think I’m highly critical of how people do work in the community because I am of the communities in which I work in. So I grew up in a single family household, South Central Los Angeles. I was born in Mississippi, my parents divorced when I was six years old. And my mom picked up and moved to California because that’s where her siblings were. So at the time, that was where her social capital was, her communal capital was, what her siblings did. Not really knowing, moving from rural Mississippi, to urban LA would actually be harder for her, but she had family there. So I grew up in LA, now called South LA because gentrification is a real thing since they built that train line through it.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 1:55

Were you in, what has been called in the past South Central Los Angeles? Or no, that’s not where you were from.

Lillian Singh 2:01

Yeah, I grew up in South Central Los Angeles. So yeah, I grew up in the jungle. So if anybody has seen the movie Training Day, I grew up in the jungles, a very dense, urban community of probably about 100 or so apartments, Latino and African American predominantly, almost exclusively. So growing up in LA, South Central LA right down La Brea Coliseum, really working-class families, not even you know, middle income families, really moderate income families, working class families really just trying to take care of their families. Grew up through LA riots, I grew up through you know, the Crips and the Bloods and you know, really seeing territorial risks and challenges. So I grew up through that. You know, I was fortunate enough, however, to be connected to two social capital or community capital asset building opportunities. One was my local church and the other was a program called the USC pre-college enrichment academy. And when I think about just those two anchor institutions, one being my church, as I mentioned, which was a safe haven, right? My pastor was an activist before he retired, you know, activating for labor rights for USC workers. So being around that, as I reflect now, in my mid 30s, and just thinking about the types of activism I’ve been exposed to. And also, you know, just my mom worked at my church, right.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 3:30

Was it a big church?

Lillian Singh 3:31

It wasn’t, it was probably about 150 people. But it had a big footprint in the community. Yeah, in the community. We were right there by USC. So it became a hub, a local hub.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 3:45

University of Southern California just for people who don’t know. Not everyone in the jungle knows USC. My father grew up not too far from where you grew up. So I’m a little bit familiar with the area.

Lillian Singh 3:55

Yeah. And your father went to my middle school and high school. So right in the mid 90s, you know, my high school became kind of like a Learning Center where they really transformed education for students. They thought that if they track students from sixth grade to 12th grade, it would increase the likelihood of graduation and being a part of that high school allowed me to be a part of this program, which was really focused on preparing low income, working class students for college. And I was in this program for six years, you know, I received extra curriculum, the best teachers that LAUSD school district has to offer, you know, year long wraparound services.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 4:36

What type of wraparound services?

Lillian Singh 4:37

Yeah, thank you. That’s a good question. So after-school tutoring, right. So my school day actually started on the campus of USC, because a part of what they wanted us to be able to see and visualize was what it would look like to actually be a part of another community. So from sixth grade to 12th grade, my first two classes were on the campus of USC. We started earlier than my regular school. We started at 7:30 in the morning, and I didn’t finish school until six o’clock. And that was another thing that they wanted to make sure we had, was just safety, right? Because growing up in South Central, right, being exposed to gun violence and drug violence and etc, you know, us being safe was a critical component as well. We also did Saturday school. So we would have to go to USC campus on Saturdays, from about eight to two o’clock. And then we also did summer school. So I mean, you were in school, but in addition to like being, you know, in this academic environment, they exposed us to things such as the opera, they took us on trips throughout the US to be exposed to different cities. And so they really wanted us to be able to visualize what life could be outside of South Central LA

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 5:53

And also as a parent of a seven and five year old. I can imagine what a huge asset that was to your mother as well. In terms of not having to get pre-care, not having to get aftercare, you know, having kind of free subsidized, quote, no kind of free with summer camp, you know, in addition to all the important things you were learning, but I just know oftentimes with, I think your mom, your mom’s a single mother at that time, like how draining it can be if you’re constantly working, taking care of your kid right away, just giving her a little space to breathe as well by knowing her daughter’s in a secure, safe environment.

Lillian Singh 6:27

And I’ll add to that, you know, the wraparound services they provided because they knew the parent income levels, and that they provided Family Development Institute, it was actually a requirement that parents went to class, I want to say 12 Saturdays a year, where they were learning different, you know, parenting skills, right. From what it looked like to set up a study environment for us to make sure that they were aware of, you know, the resources available to them, you know, from a social services perspective. In addition, I remember Once one year, I came home and our lights had been cut off. And then I went to school the following day. And we actually had counseling sessions every week. Right? So we had a licensed psychologist, where the students went through counseling once a week, in group counseling session, just to share our emotions about everything that was going on. In our session, you know, I was in tears, and I was crying about what had happened. And all I know is, you know, when I went home, my lights were back on. Right. So that was also another, so they reached out to my mom, right? You know, because parents who are really just doing the best they can from an income perspective, you know, there’s a lot of shame associated with that. So they reached out to her and I don’t know what happened, but there were also resources available to just keep the family going. I remember another year my grandfather had passed away, and I was really, really close to my grandfather and he was in Mississippi. And the academy, USC Academy, actually paid for me to fly to Mississippi, so I can be at the funeral services with my family. That really, actually, wasn’t in the budget for someone who’s making $15, $17,000 a year, right? “Oh, I’m just gonna go buy a $600 flight.” So, you know, really wraparound services, understanding everything that that student needed to succeed. So I went through this program, I was successful enough to graduate as valedictorian of my high school, I graduated as valedictorian of my high school.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 8:32

The high school is a regular public school, is that correct?

Lillian Singh 8:35

Oh, yeah, no, LAUSD, regular public school, Learning Center. But you know, it was this special program in the school that was heavily subsidized by private dollars, as well as USC, private, you know, University.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 8:53

Interesting, so you still got to kind of be around the kids from the neighborhood to an extent though, you might have been in different classes per se.

Lillian Singh 8:59

Yeah, we were in different classes, but we were on the same campus. So after those two classes in the morning, a bus will take us back to our home school because it wasn’t just at my school. It was also a program that was at Manual Arts High School, which is also right there in South Central Los Angeles. And it at one point, I believe it was that LA High if I’m not mistaken, so there were other schools that actually hosted this special program, but we would go back to our home school. And another thing around that socialization, and we will call scholars. So from the very beginning of time, there was just a different mentality that you know, you’re a scholar, you’re striving for excellence. So, you know, the kool-aid we were drinking was, if we do well in high school, then we can go to college. The guarantee that USC promised us is, after graduating if we met the requirements, we were guaranteed a four and a half year scholarship to USC. So it wasn’t just like do good. It was you do good and then you will have an opportunity to actually get a full ride scholarship to USC.A

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 10:04

And to even add to that, it wasn’t just do good and you’ll get a full ride. It’s do good and we’re going to give you training, counseling. We’ll even invest in your parents, your household, to help you do good.

Lillian Singh 10:16

That’s right. Full wraparound services. Full wraparound services. So you know, I was able to excel in high school because of the services and the support systems and just believing that I was actually a scholar, that excellence was the only option. And I was able to apply and attend Stanford University. Yeah, first in my high school to get accepted and I received a full blind, need-based scholarship to attend Stanford. Which basically means if your parents make under a certain, you know, dollar amount annually, Stanford University pays for your entire education. So I was actually able to go to Stanford, graduate without student loan debt, which is a whole nother thing we could talk about later, but how that’s actually propelled my ability to create assets and opportunity and how I see that as not being necessarily an option for my peers who actually went to school, graduated. But were you know, straddled with $50, $75,000 with student loan debt with a bachelor. So that wasn’t my reality. So I was fortunate enough that Stanford had that policy. But yeah, so I went to middle school, high school and was able to go to Stanford University.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 11:34

I think, again, that part of your life’s journey is like such a powerful testament on how substantial investment into a person can help overcome the racial wealth divide from which their community kind of lives. And again, like I mean, your program is the most ideal program I could think of. I’ve always thought of instead of trying to move kids from their public schools, can’t you do pre-school, after-school investments that still allow some of the kids to see, who weren’t in your program, the possibilities that you could be. I mean, you being a valedictorian at your school, I’m sure was an inspiration to many kids who weren’t in that school. And I’ll just say one other thing, the thousands of dollars over the years that would allow to be invested in. Again, I think people try to think of something about you know, we’ll call someone a scholar, but we won’t put the money behind that.

Lillian Singh 12:19

No, they absolutely did. You know, it’s a testament to USC. And the program continues to exist. They just got a huge endowment, I believe about two years ago, from someone from you know, the financial services sector so they’ve renamed the program in his honor, but the program still exists to my knowledge. All of my peers, right, so the peers that I was in middle school with, high school with, we’re all first generation college students, all from low income families. All grew up in South Central Los Angeles. And you know, I have friends who are now attorneys, who are doctors who are leading Kaiser Foundation. It really is a testament of this ongoing investment in us. So, I mean, I have actually another friend who is a naval officer, right? So it’s just, yeah.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 13:12

Well, yeah. So that’s your life up until college. So professionally, how did you get into this space? I mean, were you kind of clear that this type of investment occurred to me, and I want to do economic equity work?

Lillian Singh 13:28

Yeah,actually, you know, the only thing I was clear about when I graduated from school, well, one, I majored in urban planning, and I got my master’s in urban sociology. When I went to Stanford, I was very clear that there was something inherently wrong with the system. So I thought that I was actually going to impact the universe through you know, how do we recreate, redesign, rezone communities? Because I was able to see clear, striking disparities within just zip codes, right? As you know, in high school, I was an Academic Decathlon student, and we would go to other zip codes and other schools that were literally like 15, 20 minutes away. And I just see an enormous difference just in prosperity, and sustainability and beautification of community. So I initially began to think that I would actually engage this system of inequality, even though I couldn’t really name it, to a class called the American dream, while at Stanford. I really couldn’t actually understand it. And then I got really engaged in sociology and stratification. And I remember one paper I wrote about, you know, what’s the primary axis of stratification? Is it race, gender or class and I immediately believed that it was actually class right? Because I saw differences. You know, I have different opinions now.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 14:58

I just want to pause for a second because your stories reminded me, I used to work for Reverend Sharpton, Reverend Sharpton said to me that he didn’t really have this drive to deal with injustice until I guess, at some point he started going to a school with higher income kids. When you’re in the hood, you just assume that’s the way you live. It’s until you really, I mean, even on TV, you see people living differently. That’s not really, when you really see laymen and people really live different every day like, and they have a good life. That really kind of brings out this idea that you want to change, gave Reverend Sharpton this idea of social justice.

Lillian Singh 15:33

That’s right. So I thought that I was going to actually impact this ecosystem through urban planning and urban design. But I just, you know, what brought me to this career honestly, is just my continuous desire to better understand the system of inequality. I came out to DC in 2004. I was very motivated to be really around black professionals. I don’t know how many people remember DC in 2004. The city itself has also gone through just radical gentrification and transformation, or development, you know, whatever word.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 16:15

All the same right now.

Lillian Singh 16:18

But what is clear to me, is that just the pure number of black professionals is not as visible as it was when I came here in 2004. And I came here seeking just an opportunity to be around other black professionals. And I did not know, I graduated from Stanford with my masters, and still didn’t know what I wanted to do. But I came out here on a fellowship, a fellowship in social service. So I was able to work with two foundations and in working with those foundations, I got engaged in research and youth development research. Because I then began to connect my own personal experiences with, if we write the education system, and then perhaps, that will level the playing field. And we know that, that also isn’t true based on data. But I stayed out here and I started doing research on youth development and focusing on African American, Latino communities. And then that really parlayed itself for me to work for a Stanford alum, who was really working on a different level of systems change, which was the organizational ecosystem leaders, you know, organizational leaders in the nonprofit sector. And I was, like, that’s an interesting space to think about, like if we write the nonprofit sector because remember, my life was really transformed by being a part of this program that was this public-private partnership. So I was like, if I am working with programs that are funded by private dollars, foundations, etc. Maybe we can impact the ecosystem. I learned a little bit more about the nonprofit industrial complex through working in that space. And then my career led me to the NAACP. I started doing research there actually.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 18:09

So what brought you to the NAACP? So you’re working over here, I mean, like, were you just looking for a change, or just want to be part of a historic civil rights organization? What kind of brought you over there from doing research at foundations to the NAACP?

Lillian Singh 18:21

So I began to see that I wanted to continue to impact justice. Right. So it was one thing to work within, you know, consulting firms, but not having a really explicit tilt that we are about economic justice, climate justice, health, justice, criminal justice, civic justice. I was in my mid 20s at that point, and I was like, there has to be more to my research abilities. So I actually entered the NAACP as a research associate doing research there, that has been parlay. I think also, God’s Will, accident, however you want to say, into the career that I have now really focused on economics and intersectionality with assets. So I’ve been doing that type of work for about 10 years now.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 19:10

Yeah. And that’s where I met Lillian, at the NAACP. We started working together at the NAACP economic department. And then we went over to Prosperity Now at the time CFED Corporation for Enterprise Development together. And now, Lilian is Prosperity Now’s Vice President of Racial Wealth Equity. And it says on the website that you provide strategic oversight to the deployment of three primary strategies. Leading a team focused on strengthening all the Prosperity Nows programs ability to address racial wealth inequality, to launching and implementing specific projects that highlight best practices in bridging racial wealth inequality, and elevating Prosperity Now and its partners influential voices that drive policy solutions to tackle racial economic inequality. So I just wanted to talk in these last 10 minutes, a bit about the launching and implementing specific projects that highlight best practices in bridging racial wealth inequality, particularly the building high impact nonprofit project and some others you’re overseeing. But that one which you really have been leading on since its beginning. Could you talk a little bit about the building high impact nonprofit project and how that relates to the issues of racial wealth divide and asset development?

Lillian Singh 20:26

Yeah. Well, we launched building high impact nonprofits for color project together. You know, we’ve been doing this work, right, for four years now. And I think, what is significantly different, is that it is unapologetic about inequality. Right. I think it’s really hard to do this work when people don’t want to actually address some of the explicit challenges that communities face. I’m really excited. I remember that conversation in the fall of 2015. When JPMorgan Chase, who is a huge advocate, has really strengthened their muscle on this issue, and investing in advancing black city pathways projects, entrepreneurs of color, really trying to be a front leader on this issue. And one of the things they were grappling with was, is one of the things we continue to grapple with, is it the organizational capacity that limits their ability to be viable and strong ranks? So there’s something inherently wrong with them?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 21:40

Particularly these non-profits of color, right? There are these issues of funding smaller nonprofits and oftentimes those disproportionately nonprofits of color, right, so JPMorgan Chase, and other funders would be like, well, we don’t know if this is the right investment because they don’t have the right capacity.

Lillian Singh 21:56

That’s right. That’s right. Or is it because they don’t have the right capacity, because they don’t have the actual funding that’s needed. Fellow rate. So, and I think what we’ve learned from this work, you know, so far and we’re actually writing up our lessons learned and practices, looking to expand this work with a slightly different approach, right, to the model is that it could be a little bit of both. However, what we are learning and what we are saying is that this project has actually validated credentialed organizations in their ecosystems. And that’s what they needed in order to have seats at tables, to then open doors for investment opportunities, period.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 22:45

Talking to you about this reminds me so much of the investments, the critique that do these organizations have the capacity right, oftentimes, we heard the same time critiques of people from the hood. You know, “these children lack capacity,” right? And then we hear your story, right. And we hear how kind of wraparounds, and it wasn’t like it was easy for you, because you had the wraparound services, you had to work very hard, but you had to have pretty much investments that equal the amount of work you’re going to put in to advance and now, you know, I’ve never thought of it this way. But it sounds like the building high impact nonprofits of color program. And I’ve seen the work you put into it. And the depth of really wraparound services you’ve provided to these nonprofits of color, so that they could be successful. And then when investments come into them, they can actually grow, I just see those things very much connecting and reflecting each other.

Lillian Singh 23:43

Yeah, I think that’s right. So you know, I’ve never actually thought about that connection either. But no, the work that we do is really about creating opportunity and on-ramps, right. We undergird them with organizational capacity building support, not just saying, “Oh go to this training on board governance and fundraising.” But then we provide additional months of coaching to the organizations where they’re able to actually have access to an executive and and to a leader that’s in that discipline that they wouldn’t normally have, to actually create a capstone project or a capstone idea that they’re able to then continue to bounce the ball, right. So we provide the training, but then we also equip them with the real life coaching. That’s one piece of the puzzle, right. So some of the organizations that receive the training, they may or may not take full advantage of the coaching, however, it’s provided to them. And what we’ve seen is that the organizations that take full advantage of the coaching, take full opportunity of the coaching can create things such as the North Lawndale Employment Network has taken through our process. Their idea was to create a capital campaign, and their capital campaign goal was to actually create and launch a building in North Lawndale on the west side of Chicago. Focused on the underemployed and informally incarcerated Americans in that side of Chicago. In that capital campaign, their initial goal was actually $5 million. I’m happy to say that they actually have raised to date $7.5 million. Their goal is $10 million. They have already purchased a building, and they are breaking ground on construction. And that came from an opportunity they received through Prosperity Now, right? The opportunity to be connected to a fundraising executive to be connected to an ecosystem, where they were told that they were bright, that they were brilliant. We help validate them in their ecosystem. And I think that that’s exactly what happened to us scholars and our USC pre-college Freshman Academy, right. We were provided the training, but we were also provided concrete resources and we were validated, we were told that we were scholars and look at many of us now.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 25:52

I remember me and you were thinking through and developing this building high impact nonprofits of color project. You know, as part of the racial wealth divided nation, because most who are doing racial wealth divide, aren’t doing capacity building work for nonprofits. But I know, as me and you were talking, we both had worked at the NAACP, we both had interactions with national foundations. And we saw that not only is racial wealth divide, this lack of assets true for individuals or households, but even our own organizations don’t get invested in the same type of equal way. So we kind of took this unique approach of, so we’re going to, as part of our racial wealth divide, strengthen the organizations, the businesses, the nonprofits in our community, and if we strengthen those assets, that in itself will strengthen the community. I know you can name many different organizations that have prospered over time, but why don’t you just name the cities you’ve worked in, and then I just want to talk to you for a minute, I was looking at your newest profile, the racial wealth divide profile in Newark, and it looks great, it looks like you’re taking it up a space, but if you just mentioned that, but when just mentioned the cities you’ve been working in, and maybe even the plans for the future that we can end with Newark.

Lillian Singh 27:06

Absolutely. So we started this work in Miami in New Orleans, then we expanded the project to Baltimore and Chicago. This last cohort, we’ve been working in Dallas, in Wilmington. And we are looking to continue to expand this work in two new cities, the same model with some slight nuances. But we’re also going to double down in two of the six cities that we’ve been working in. And we’re going to support them in creating a collective impact model on creating an asset design project, working collectively to really change some systems. To bring about some systems change work in their city. So we currently are working in six cities. 2020 we’ll be in a total of eight, do this project, across all the projects that we’re working on right now. Where About 18 different cities right now.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 28:02

Wow. That’s amazing. That’s and again, it just started when? 2016?

Lillian Singh 28:07

2016 January

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 28:09

January.Wow. So it’s only been four years. I mean, again, it’s amazing work. And I do think we’re really over-seeing some of the most systematic work around racial wealth divide, particularly working in different communities across the country. Why don’t you just take us out a little bit on this newest racial wealth divide profile in Newark? I mean you can just talk basically about it, and let people know where they can go to look at that profile and catch up on your work as a whole.

Lillian Singh 28:37

Yeah, so we just released the Newark racial wealth divide by profile. And I want to say that, you know, these profiles were really a part of Dedrick’s vision when he was here with us at Prosperity Now. Really anchoring conversations at the local level and data. One of the things that we cannot deny is data, right? So we create these profiles to really help normalize conversations about racial economic inequality. Also we create them to be used as champion tools. In my future vision, litigation tools, to really help undergird local nonprofits. As they’re looking to really uplift challenges of racial economic inequality. We have so many tools out there that give us data. You know, one of the things that I appreciate about ours, the profiles that we create here at Prosperity Now is that they’re attractive to look at number one, but also they’re friendly, right? So you’re able to really go into a community, so we partner with the New Jersey Justiceness to their strong organization. They’re in the city to really get this tool right. And they plan on actually continuing to use it for the 2020 plan, which is to really increase workforce development opportunities, because that’s one of the greatest challenges that Newark residents are faced with right now. Of course, cost burdenship, which is basically this idea that you spend more than 30% of your income per month on housing, is by far the number one challenge and that’s irrespective of whether or not you are a homework owner or renter. So we look forward to continuing to build with Newark and you can go to our website Prosperitynow.org or you can just google Newark racial wealth divide profile and it should come up.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 30:21

Any final words you want to share with our audience here on Spotlight in the race and wealth network and any other pages they can connect with you and the work you’re doing?

Lillian Singh 30:31

Yeah, so you know, one of the things I would like to share is that you actually can do community based driven work without the community being at the front right? So I think you know, I like to remind everyone here at Prosperity Now, you can go to prosperitynow.org to learn more about who we are as an organization. In order to work, actually, in true service of organizations, number one, you have to be willing to get on a plane, get out of the car, right you have to go to the community, you know you can’t do that work.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 30:57

As a matter of fact, Lillian has been flying the community all across the country nonstop.

Lillian Singh 31:02

Yeah, you have to be on the ground. You can’t do it from your great, awesome office, downtown DC, you know, we’re on the corner of 12th and G. You know, I love our office space. But this is actually not where the need is. So I just want to encourage all those who are building for the community, make sure you’re building with them, right, not just for them through a theoretical lens. So that’s what I want to leave y’all with.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad 31:25

Great. Well, thanks so much, Lillian for coming on. And I’m sure we’re gonna have you back to talk more about your work or even some people from your team about all the different work you’re doing. So again, check out Lillian Singh, and I also want to mention Prosperity Now, too. They just got a new leader, Gary Cunningham, who’s been a long term leader in racial equity work, did a lot of stuff on business and a lot of stuff on foundations and race work, we should probably have Gary in future podcasts. But Gary and Lillian as a team, you know, look out you’re going to see some big things continue to rise at Prosperity Now. So thanks everyone for listening to Spotlight and please keep listening to the race and wealth podcasts. We will give you up to the podcast network. We’ll give you a show like this every week. So thanks again for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai